So…. 72% of democrats is too low of a number for government run healthcare for the DNC to care? What happened to doing what a significant majority of your voters want?

Hell even private, still ensuring healthcare for everyone is still a majority.

Also, man you tell me vote if I want to matter then tell me I don’t matter. Which is it. That progressives as a whole need to vote if they want to matter? Literally the group by your own polls data you were using that votes the most. Like lol.

Anyways, again, while it may only be 6% as I’ve been saying we do not need a perfect representative. I do not expect a fucking communist president. Just do some of the extremely popular progressive platforms such as healthcare for all or etc. then do your normal liberal shit for everything else idgaf. But if you want to lose 12% of your base then whatever. Hope you pick up enough republicans I guess. Have fun with that. But don’t be surprised that the single group that has the highest % voter turnout ignores you when you actively antagonize them, shit on their ideals, and tell them they don’t matter, while simultaneously blaming them when you lose, and suing any party that represents them off ballots. Thanks for reminding me not to let them have my vote because they don’t deserve shit when they pull shit like this trying to pretend progressives don’t matter tho. I was almost on the fence.

Damn I didn’t know 69% was a small number of people.

https://thehill.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/04/wat_04242020.jpg

Or 55%

https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx

Or 60+%

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/10/23/7-facts-about-americans-views-of-money-in-politics/

Boy, I sure have unpopular ideas I would liked

But also, when you split shit 50%, 12% progressive is basically 24% of your base. Actively ignoring 24% of your base seems fucking crazy, but again. Sure dude. The 2016 election went so well for them when they actively antagonised progressives. I’m sure that great strategy will keep paying off.

Also I’ve voted in every major and minor election since I turned 18. But my favourite part is you’re supposed to vote. But you’re told you have to vote for one of two candidates because the others are spoilers. But then they look at less than a third of a percent of the vote going to progressive party and ignore us.

Always cool.

Also, PSL is constantly doing work, organizing, and helping out communities. Their website honestly doesn’t even have a thing on the front about their presidential candidate last I remember checking.

I mean I wasn’t saying you’re wrong just pointing that the representation doesn’t need to be “perfect”

But also voting for the party that has sued to keep 3rd party off ballots & runs attack ads on third parties to hope that they eventually allow ranked choice or star or etc. is kinda not exactly looking probable but hey, here’s hoping.

“Vote to kill your family or kill yourself.” Is quite the uh… great democratic message that really says “DNC, vote for us, because we’re not (all) openly facist.”

Like I know you probably did not brain that whole thing through there but like fucking lol.

Anyways my point was a counter to needing a perfect representative. They don’t need to be perfect, just need to actually care about what their constituents want/need. Yeah it is bad. Duh. We know it is fucked up that’s why people are discussing alternative ways to vote that do not boil down to Evil and slightly less evil. We don’t need pure good as a candidate. Just… someone who listens to those they want to vote for them?

Like… not actively supporting and contributing to genocide would be a cool start? Public health care would also be nice…

But there is a big difference between “perfect” and “beholden at all, in any fucking way, to their constituents.”

The DNC gets to refuse to run any progressive policies and say shit like “nothing will fundamentally change” because their entire policy is “at least I’m not Trump.”

I mean I wasn’t particularly serious it’s more about the DNC even having anything close to that as policy which would be nice but they won’t.

Just man up and nationalize all major forms of insurance you fucker.

Man. Its really sad seeing people out here pretending they’ve got a math degree. Out here saying shit like not 7 equals 6. Get the fuck out of here with that dumb shit. Being a part of the subset does not make you the whole fucking set. If a vote for PSL or Green or fucking whatever, means more left leaning politicians elected locally and nationally, then great. It absolutely does not support Trump. It supports making the DNC maybe fucking listen to the left for once. Stop fucking going further and further right into pushing back against immigration. Stop supporting committing literal genocide in the hopes israel takes over iran for its lithium deposits and the rest of the middle east for the oil. Instead y’all would rather shill for genocide & becoming more and more evil as long as the other party gets evil fastererer.

But since you love math so much: The Libertarian/Constitution party has 3x the vote of green/PSL. Green/PSL was 0.31% of the total vote last presidential election. Which was 0.1% of the total number of possible votes. Stop focusing on shaming the few who absolutely won’t vote DNC but still likely will vote down ballot and instead maybe focus on making your party actually have policies people would give a shit about, or focus on the DNC doing something to actually energize voters outside of making sure Trump runs against them so they can point to big scary. Or like, literally anything that might help you. Shaming 3rd party voters is just going to lose you more elections. Like, holy fuck do y’all learning nothing from 2016? Y’all look at Michigan and freak out about green party, ignoring that even fucking the constitution party had more votes than the tiny gap. and the libertarian party had 3x the amount. Even if the DNC successfully made it illegal to vote 3rd party like they seem to want to, they would’ve lost Michigan in 2012. They know that too. They just want to scapegoat someone instead of themselves. Stop blaming people other than the DNC. They’re the ones who actively fought as hard as they could against any progressive policies. Letting Clinton using the “victory fund” well before securing the nomination in order to campaign against Bernie. literally just shooting itself in the face. Not a surprise they lost while doing that.

Anyways, sorry, people being shills for stupid DNC talking points made to alienate leftists and lose more elections annoys the fuck out of me.

Talking about simply adopting the policy to the DNCs platform, which they won’t. Not about it actually passing, which they still should be able to do but is out of the question when they don’t even want it.

Boy if you hate non-white people getting arrested you’re gonna have a bad time finding the person who wrote the crime bill that most often leads to that.

The point of 3rd party is that they cannot support a DNC that is just fucking cool with simply being slightly less bad than hitler as long as the other guy is literally hitler. Because since 2012 they’ve refused to adopt anything progressive. Because they’ve continually sued to stop progressives. Because they’ve used their own money against progressive democratic candidates in primaries to stop them from getting in, instead of using that money to promote the DNC. They are actively against progressives, so I don’t see the point in blaming the 0.31% of the vote for something the DNC is actively working against. We’ve gone from “we need change” in the DNC to “nothing will fundamentally change”. So I mean… yeah… what do you expect from progressives when neither of the two parties represents them.

You… do know that the right gets like…. 4x the 3rd party vote compared to the left. Like what you say is 100% false.

Libertarians+constitution got like 1.2% compared to PSL+greens 0.31% last presidential election iirc.

But also, if the DNC wanted the 3rd party vote they could simply… court it… instead of pissing on it? To say they cost the vote when the DNC continually shot Bernie in the face in 2016, using funds meant to promote the DNC candidate to campaign against a Democrat candidate makes it FOR SURE THE 3RD PARTY VOTERS FAULT. NOTHING THE DNC COULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY TO NOT LOSE. THEY WERE PERFECT FOR REFUSING TO ADOPT LEGALIZED WEED, SOCIAL PROGRAMS, MEDICARE FOR ALL, ETC. IN FACT, IT IS GOOD THEY ARE STILL REFUSING TO DO SO AND ALSO REFUSING TO JUST NOT GIVE BILLIONS TO SUPPORT AN ACTIVE GENOCIDE. THAT’LL SHOW THIRD PARTY VOTERS THE TRUE MEANING OF DEMOCRACY!

yes, yes, sell your soul to Genocide and maybe you can buy it back if you vote hard enough! Or at least they’ll only increase the state sponsored genocide by a little bit more each year! That is… uhhh. good? Yes thats what I want to call that. Good!

Wild you can say a but about still murdering tons of small children is irrelevant.

Fucking lol ok. Well, tried to be sane and reasonable but clearly you’re not here for that. My bad. Sorry for treating you like a person.

I love that you love this theory that you cannot possibly get any data on magically but also cannot realize that the 0.7% of the total vote in 2016 the leftist third parties got is almost 10x less than the loss from voter turnout between 2016 and 2020. the 40% of people who simply did not vote at all are a BIIIIIIT more to blame than the 0.7% of people who voted third party, no matter how many of them would overlap with the DNC or not.

Spoiler candidates exist, sure, but that is shit like IIRC when republicans in miami funded a dude who didn’t live in florida in a miami race because he has the same legal name as the democrat who was running.

That is a lot different than third parties who aren’t even getting 1% of the vote. the DNC shot themselves in the face in 2016 and cannot get over it, so they would rather continue to scapegoat bernie bros and green party instead of just admitting their plan of pissing off as many progressives as humanly possible and trying to court republicans instead has not worked extremely well.

and finally, if you’re cool with FPTP then great for you, keep voting DNC. No need to remove money from politics, support the poor, stop genocide, or anything important that would lose us money when we have something more evil than us to vote against! Yay! Some aren’t stoked on how complicit in that idea the DNC is. I’m not going to tell someone with a straight face that democrats will fix everything we just have to vote for them another 600 times so they can… keep going further from progress each year. Example being immigration they’re pushing which is fully 2 steps backward to take one step forward.

Thinking democrats couldn’t possibly do it cuz republicans are is wild.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/10/01/project-2025-explained-what-to-know-about-the-right-wing-policy-map-ahead-of-tonights-vp-debate/?

If you seriously need an article on us supporting Israel’s genocide on Gaza I can as well.

Yea, republicans may be worse on these but the literal point of many voting third party is it’s absolutely fucked to just blindly accept the party of “slightly less excited for genocide but still definitely excited for genocide.” One party being worse should not be a pass.

You say 3rd party is irrelevant but also that 4x(revised now that I looked up exact numbers from 2020) more right 3rd party doesn’t prove it’s more than the left…. If there are only 2 relevant parties then… right goes to right, left goes to left. Shock. Awe. Ignore the weird centrist or actual independent or etc ones as those are hard to place.

Again, the issue is not that we have any third party vote. We should. It should be encouraged. It’s a fucking democracy. Dems trying to say trump will end democracy while simultaneously trying to remove 3rd parties is wild.

If we look at 2008 the left actually had 1.16x more than the right on 3rd party votes, and still won by 7% (10x the 3rd party votes on the left) where as 2016 the right had 3x the lefts 3rd party votes (2016 was a big third party year at ~3% right vs ~1% left. Who would guess 2 bad candidates leaves a huge 3rd party.) and then in 2020 the right had 4x the lefts third party votes. If anyone should be worried about “spoiler” candidates it’s the right as their third party has grown a lot more than the lefts. Hell 2020 the left lowered by half of 2008 (Even the crazy year 2016 it was only 0.71% of possible voters, 2020 was only 0.2% of possible voters. 2008 was 0.43% of possible voters.)

Again, 4x as many third party votes on the right. Spoiler effect ain’t shit to the left. If it was they would’ve actively tried and court progressives past Obama. The overlap exists yes but the DNC has not moved left much in 12 years leaving progressives pretty disenfranchised. It’s pretty obvious why many refuse to vote for a woman who used DNC funds to fight against the progressive candidate in primaries, or an old man who helped write one of the biggest anti-crime bills (which ends up a large anti-minority bill) and said nothing will fundamentally change, or now a prosecutor who is “tough on immigration” refuses to denounce those actively committing genocide.

Medicare for all, or not supporting a genocide, or plenty of other options available to help attract progressives if they wanted it.

BUT again, rather than not vote at all those can at least vote 3rd party and still help down ballot. A lot better to win house and senate than lose everything.

Edit: updated to correct ratio of 4x based on 2020 data

So… you’re saying the DNC has not been actively ignoring progressives in favor of republicans since after Obama got elected? The “nothing will fundamentally change” party? The tough on immigration party isn’t actively courting republicans? Then who are they courting with that shit? The actively racist democrats in Texas and Florida? Why pretend suddenly immigration is a problem when it’s not? The country was built on immigration. We don’t need to deport more and split up more families. We need more immigration courts and better processes to help transition those families into legal immigration. Not give them court dates 5 months out and 300 miles away. Make batch hiring shit they do at meat packing plants illegal so we stop ending up with dead 16 year old kids they swear they thought were 32 year olds. Hell, crack down on wage theft and increase national minimum wage to a liveable wage (national+urban cost of living instead of single catch all) while we are at it instead of complaining about immigrants taking our jobs when we have to have two to live. Be plenty of jobs when everyone only needs one. And make Medicare for all so businesses don’t have to compete over expensive medical benefits.

But nah, be tough on crime and immigration instead cuz that’s what republicans want.

Also fuck man can be please stop giving almost as much as we spend on the entire countries education to supporting active genocide?

Sigh. Sorry deleted by moderator for replying with same thing they said which was I feel necessarily aggressive but it’s understandable.

Anyways;

A vote for Green Party/PSL/etc. is better than the alternative for those voting third party: not voting at all.

Those voting 3rd party will still vote dem down ballot often and will also support dems on amendments and ballot measures.

It is not worth losing the vote across the board, so just chill out and let them vote.

IF the DNC actually wanted those votes it would court those votes. Biggest difference in PSL/Green and DNC is stance in Israel/palestine and some socialist policies. (Well and PSL wants to nationalize the top 100 companies, but that’s probably too much of an ask). Instead of any of that they’ve decided to praise Israel and crack down on immigration. So… sure if you want to court republicans go for it but don’t cry when leftists refuse to vote for you.

Also… people complaining trump supporters don’t vote 3rd party: 80% of third party votes in 2020 were right (libertarian+constitution at 1.22%) 20% were leftist (Green+PSL at 0.31%) so… yeah… 4x more right wing than left wing 3rd party voters.

Edit: updated numbers using 2020 data.

To be fair, while I’d be like whoa lets not say centrists don’t exist, someone going “Hm idk Donald Trump’s policy of … lets just let cops go wild and kill anyone they want for one day sounds pretty rational and good lets weigh that with Harris’ policy.” is uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh not a fucking centrist.