What did you get banned for being a gif hating loser in the other thread? I would never report you for being that kind of a loser; it’s far more fun to just mock you relentlessly when you have a psychological moment like that. Which was truly fun and brightened my day, so I do want to say thanks and I appreciate your participation. It was probably some one who agreed with me on how silly you were being that reported you. I would never do that, it’s far more entertaining to have you staying in the game.

For your participation yesterday, I sincerely appreciate it:

Now, into the comment at hand…

You can be and should be a critic of me but you should also have the charity to take my arguments on their face. I think AOC is mid among current progressives and I’ve outlined why several times in this thread. I can reiterate those points if you like and we can take it from there.

Newsom isn’t running to be the Republican nominee.

No ones siding with MTG in the issue. But AOC allowed herself to get outflanked from the left on the issue of finding weapons to Israel. Eventually AOC got on the right side of it all, but Ilhan Omar and the rest of the progressive bloc didn’t get out flanked by MTG, just AOC did.

Why is that acceptable to you? That AOC couldn’t take a committed stance against funding weapons to Israel? Eventually she got to the right position, but not getting it right to begin with speaks to her political instincts, and they aren’t good.

Fox news, Piers Morgon, are both very antogonistic as examples, and I would list Zeteo, any interview with Medhi or Pratt as a hard interview (I personally think Medhi is one of the bester interviewers in medi, hands down).

It’s not a matter of it being time wasting, it’s a matter of putting in reps and communicating a message. It’s about rhetoric and convincing an audience. Bernie finds time for those audiences. Ro Khanna finds time for those audiences. Ilhan finds time for those interviews. And go read the comments under those interviews: MAGA trust Bernie and Ro more than they do most of their own Republicans because Bernie and Ro have put in the reps, done the laps.

And to volley the question back over the net, why does AOC get an accountability pass when all the rest of her squad cohort don’t suffer from this same issue? Its not like they aren’t effective or productive members of Congress, I’d argue quite the opposite. It was not the Cortesse-Massie bill that got the Epstein files released it wash the Khanna Massie bill that did, and Ro found ample time to take his messages and arguments before the people while doing so.

It still depends btw: do you call refusing to entertain a deliberately false narrative “stumbling”?

Let’s take the example I gave. AOC got asked by dropsite if she supported her former chief of staff who is trying to oust Pelosi in California. A fairly gentle question from a friendly source about litterally the person who helped get you into Congress. And she fumbled it. Badly. In a way that should give any progressive pause.

When Ilhan Omar was attacked by a maga supporter at a recent event she didn’t back down. She litterally got in the attackers face in a way that should have made national headlines. We’re she running for another seat, it would have.

It’s fair to juxtapose AOC against her cohort, and she is at the back of that pack in my view. The pack is still leagues ahead of other Democrats but that’s beside the point, because now is when we need to make these evaluations.

I’d argue the exact opposite. If you mud wrestle with a pig, the pig beats you with experience and you get filthy no matter how well you do.

I think your an utter fool to believe you can get away from hard interviews. I will not support a candidate who can’t handle the pressure of a campaign or read the room or the moment. That’s how you get “Please clap.” Jeb, and “Nothing would fundamentally change Harris”.

These politicians are not your children. It’s not your job to protect them. They need to be held up and have their mettle tested before we need to rely upon them to be a backstop against fascism, not after.

You not only have to be able to get jnto the mud and learn to wrestle with the pigs, you need to be able to do so and win. I’m not interested in someone who hasn’t put the time in to win dirty fights.

The candidate will have to face down Tucker Carlson or Candice Owens, or any one of the innumerable shit birds who have piled up on the right.

Dude. The way she ENTERED politics was by going from volunteering for Bernie to unseating a 10-term incumbent who was the third ranking Dem representative in two years!

Yeah and for the first two years she was a fire brand. Then something happened and she became far more reserved and calculating. She genuinely changed after getting iced by Pelosi for occupying her office. I think it impacted her and she shifted her approach.

I need to see her taking harder more competitive interviews. I need to see her all over leftwing media and safe space interviews. I need to see her in spaces where her team doesn’t control the questions getting asked.

Because there are other progressives who had just as difficult if not more difficult fights than AOC has had, and they don’t seem to have a problem taking in those battles.

Explain how.

It’s baffling to anyone who has an inkling of what’s going on inside the insurance industry, considering it’s practically collapsing around the fact the climate change basically isn’t priced into existing models.

Which is just fucking wild. What the fuck have these companies been doing for decades?

I’ll be honest id care a lot more about what a Virginia politician has to say on the matter. Newsom ain’t gonna be president, so it’s annoying when their thirdway ass wants to keep hijacking the mic.

Well they need to get out and start doing media now. Regardless, a successful candidate is going to have to out in hundreds of hours in front of cameras and developing a level of comfort and ease of answering questions that only comes with practice and putting in the hours. It’s also one of my biggest critiques of AOC. She also hasn’t/isn’t putting in the reps in terms of media cycles. When they do, it’s very controlled and brief.

the side that is least critical of their candidate is going to mainly win I feel,

I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion, and I’m genuinely interested to know how you arrived at it. Like I really want to know how you arrived there.

I’m interested because, I don’t think of it as a “sides” issue; what it takes for a Republican/ conservative to win an election and what it takes for a Dem/ progressive to win, they have practically nothing to do with one another. Its two entirely different sets of cohorts you have to appeal to, its two different ways of viewing and thinking about politics and power. I also don’t believe that voters exist along a left-right spectrum. I think thats an appealing trope to entrench liberalism, one political class, of which both the Republican and traditional Democratic parties are a part of. So if you think along a unary spectrum to try and understand what people believe, you’ll make very serious mistakes when you try to predict their behavior.

In my view, if you are running on the left, its the politician that withstands the most criticism, and stays standing, who is the strongest candidate. Graham Platner or Mamdani is an excellent example of this. And excellent examples of avoiding criticism, Hillary, Biden, Harris, they all led to republican victory. Criticism makes candidates stronger. Allowing them to persist uncritically leaves them, and you if you are they’re supporter, vulnerable.

That being said, what it takes for a Democrat to win vs Republican? Absolutely different things. Apples and bananas.

Well Monday is on its way. I don’t expect the VA legislature to take this one as over and done. A mandate of the people supercedes the court.

Bernie takes hard debates ALLL THE TIME and uncle is strong because if it.

Ro Khanna also. They take every media call they can and because of that they are very comfortable getting asked tough questions.

AOC got a softball from dropsite about endorsing her former chief of staff who is challenging Pelosi, and she dropped the ball in an utter what the fuck moment.

You gotta be tough to stand up to nonstop events and pressers and interviews that come with a campaign. AOC genuinely hasn’t been putting in the reps and it shows.

I take your points, but we’re in the pre primary stage. If that’s not the time to be critical if the details, when do we get to be?

Also, it’s a political forum. It’s supposed to be a safe space for auto fellating in these topics. And maybe I misread or over read, but that auto fellating thing, it’s the critique I’m making of AOC too. She become too calculating, too much like Pelosi.

I also think AOC can fix these issues, but they were issues she had 2 years ago too. and they aren’t issues her cohort shares, they are unique to her.

Bernie takes hard interviews. Ilhan takes hard interviews. Khanna takes hard interviews.

AOC only goes for softball safe space media opportunities any more. And she’s weaker because if it. She can fix that issue and strengthen her game in this regard, but that’s on her.

I phone banked for her in her 2018 campaign.

She has work to do, because if she ran right now, she’d get eaten alive.

Notice that AOC doesn’t do very many hard interviews, and that when she gets a question asked of her that she isn’t prepared for, she stumbles.

AOC has been basically absent from leftwing media while plenty of other very solid progressives are out there putting in reps doing hard interviews in combative environments. AOC doesn’t do that and is only does very controlled media opportunities. That’s not good for someone who wants to be president. I don’t think she’s done the time like others have to be able to weather a primary.

What the FUCK are you hallucinating?

AOC has genuinely bad political instincts as a critique of some one who got outflanked in the left by the likes of MTG and because I think the person has work to do, that makes me a fascist?

Just go through and reread this thread and rethink where you are at.

Who am I schilling for?

I guess you just don’t really follow progressive politics.

I mean somewhat. Not nearly as threatening as Ro Khanna though. Someone also who has shown faaaar better political instincts. Ro might be a bit more boring and not as pretty, but they are FAR better at the game compared to AOC, who is a bit of a B student in her class.

It’s the unforced errors she keeps piling up that give me the most pause.

Maybe you just don’t follow politics much, but this critique of AOC isn’t new and we’ve been getting on her about it for years. Instincts matter in politics, a lot. Getting through a presidential primary is hard.

Just try and notice how your now defending the things that we specifically went out of our way to remove from our politics as progressives, because it’s coming from someone you identify with as being in your team.

Look, politicians don’t need cheerleaders. They need critics who can make them stronger, and if AOC does want to run, shes got some real issues that have been piling up shell need to address. And yes, this developed tendency to become more and more couched hlin her language, to become more and more politically calculating, it’s a real problem.

I’m more concerned about how she regularly missteps and misplays moments. She genuinely doesn’t have great political instincts and is usually last to the table among her peers when it comes to doing or saying the right thing. It’s kind of baffling.

Both Ayana Presley and Ilhan Omar are leagues ahead of being in the right side of issues and leading when things matter the most. AOC trails them on issues.

Like, it’s gotten bad to the point where I don’t know if AOC could make it through a primary. Her ability to get a question and form an answer that is a good, correct take, the first time, without having to test it. It’s not great.