Uh-huh. And in a two party system where one side has been proven beyond doubt to be worse, you want us to vote third party while that side literally promises fascism if they win.

Yeah sure, and while I do that I’ll donate $20 to charity and believe over half of it actually goes to the cause.

You see, all you 3rd party types never put in the work. You just come scuttling out of a dark corner every four years, yell about it, do literally nothing except confuse people and steal a few votes, and then disappear. No work in local elections, hardly a peep in off years, zero long term commitment to build a base. All of it derailment and disillusionment.

You want change? Shut up and do the work.

And the rest of the world could take it upon themselves to do something. Yet, as with every major election, people just like you are tricked into ignoring the problems we must face here, to fix other issues elsewhere. There is always a conflict. Always.

But hey, be a proxy to the problem, world cop. I won’t stop you, can’t stop you. I can tell you you’re wrong. Shitty as it is we’re making a disgusting choice to not jeopardize an election against a fascist state. I’m sorry if you feel so strongly that the minorities, LGBTQ+ community, women, and the children of this country aren’t worth your time. Them and others are the ones we are trying to protect, along with the rest of the world which will suffer if the U.S. falls into fascism.

I do agree with you. Change is needed. However, the timing is wrong. This is why I don’t denounce your perspective, only your timing.

We are not in a black and white situation. You can vote for a third party or use your time to do something more useful than endorsing online the red and blue party

Read what I said again. Situations themselves may be black or white, the choices we are presented with in those situations aren’t always so clear cut. In this case I, and many just like me, feel the best thing we can do for the World is stop Trump and the larger GOP party. They are currently that dangerous.

As for weapon deals:

These are historical acts done by every President since, fuck, I’m actually not sure. It’s been a hella long time though. Note though that wars and conflict have historically been supported most heavily by the Right.

If this is your argument to keep voting for the red and blue party i would like to remind you that the US government under any administration cycling in power has ties with dictators around the world who are worst than putin like saudi royals.

I’d like to point out I’m only interested in voting for the better potential future for all of us. If I thought Republicans were the choice I’d vote them. However, Democrats have made it quite obvious that while they have their faults, they aren’t literally promising to do worse.

Endorsing the political parties that for years have enriched corporations and shit on people misery and rights doesn’t seem the best way to address these problems.

I’m beginning to notice you’re cherry picking responses and not being fair. Go on, compare how the GOP has acted in regards to the livelihood and lives of others. Can you say: Abortion ban? Contraceptive restrictions? Lynching? The motherfucking coup attempt?

Just know that after we keep the Seat of the President most of us will support you in stopping Gaza.

Who is “we”? are you a member of the democrat party? What’s your plan to support the end of the genocide once elections are over?

What’s your plan if Trump and the GOP head the nation in a few months and things get worse? Personally, I expect your kind to suddenly go quiet in embarrassment and shame, or fear if you’re smart.

You’re wrong. Not about Gaza, that shit is absolutely evil. About your priorities. Just like those on the Right, you stand so firm on your tiny little pedestal that you’re convinced your perspective is the only right one. We have a choice between possibly making things better and a guarantee they’ll get worse. You’re just so damned stuck that even if you saw merit in my argument you wouldn’t admit it for fear of seeming like you’re in support of the genocide. In reality, by obfuscating the narrative and causing division, you may find yourself an ally of, if not far greater evil acts, then much more of the same dotted through hundreds of communities and threatened the world over.

The first goal should always be to have less of a bad thing when people are involved. Right and wrong may often be black and white, our choices are rarely so simple.

Let me preface this by saying I expect you’ve often been responded to here with anger and frustration. In return, you’re frustrated. Why don’t more people understand that a genocide is happening? Why don’t we push the Democrats, who currently hold the Office of the POTUS, to stop sending weapons? To you I feel it probably makes no sense.

From my perspective, and the perspective of others like me, we know you’re wrong. Not because you’re taking a different stance than us. Because as bad as the situation in Gaza is now, it can be worse, and it can spread. Under a Trump regime, and make no mistake this is exactly what they will push to turn it into, we’ll begin taking a more active role in Gaza. It’ll go for selling a few old weapons to outright arming beyond what we’re already doing. Trump and his cronies will seek to multiply the destruction and spread it beyond Gaza to any major State who defies them. Will they always act on this? No. The threat will be there.

Trump also has ties to Putin. Strong ones. It took a lot of evidence to convince me, I am not one of the first on that wagon. This effectively means that we will pull all aid from Ukraine. Russia may suck, though Putin is still dangerous, and Ukraine has done so well because of international support. I don’t believe the MAGA morons would actively and openly support Russia against Ukraine but fuck me, millions died during covid because of Trump and the GOP, so what do I know.

North of us Canada will be in danger down the road. Here at home the homeless will be in severe danger. Students and children given less rights, and woman made back into the playthings the Republicans think they’ve always been. Food and gas prices will rise, the USPS will be slowly chipped away at, and there will be a civil war eventually. Likely an attempted Coup against Trump down the road by segments of our military, who have always been loyal to the Nation, and whom many commanders and promonent personnel have come out against Trump.

Gaza is terrible. We agree with you. We want it to stop. Many of us see what the pathf forward is likely to be. Not because we’re guessing, because this is what the Right and Trump has promised, both verbally and in extensive written documents. If it makes us bad people, so be it. Just know that after we keep the Seat of the President most of us will support you in stopping Gaza. We’re just trying to make sure the situation doesn’t get even worse first.

What do you believe will happen if those of us who do care, which are predominantly those on the Left, decide to step up and say we won’t support a candidate?

Here’s what I would do if I wanted to be a malicious and controlling dictator type:

First, let’s assume both sides are the same. This is your stance so I’ll take it too. That means that Blue wants what Red wants: To continue the genocide. The solution then is very easy: I convince the Blue side to step aside and allow Red to take control. I do this because I have wealth, I have power, I have status, I have the ability to suck up to Trump to save my own ass. If both sides are the same, Blue will do exactly as I’ve said. The end result is even better genocide, with golden stars on each day of the week another atrocity is committed.

Congratulations, both sides are the same. Which means the worst case scenario based on your logic.

Do you know why this is such a silly scenario?

Because whatever the Democratic Blue may be, they largely are not idiots. They know the game. They’ve likely held little debate sessions behind their definitely gilded doors and 100% golden toilets in argument for and against exactly what you just claimed. Why? Because **they’re playing the same fucking game at every level. Moreover, they’ve proven they aren’t the same, time and time again, which is a huge reason why no one ever agrees with you.

I am not saying your stance doesn’t have merit. I AM saying that what merit it has must wait until we remove the current threat. Doing so means being in agreement, and it sucks. I personally want Bernie or AOC, yet you don’t see the millions of people who agree with me championing them. We understand Gaza is a terrible situation and abhorrent. We also understand how it can get worse. Not just for Gaza, for Ukraine, and for the American people.

Though since you all like to strawman so much let me get in on it: If Trump is Putin’s puppet, and Russia is at war with Ukraine, why are you saying that we should help Gaza at the expense of the Ukrainian people?

Mmhmm. So is every member of the Republican Party. Even worse, they have promised to increase hostility and support. Now, I ask you, and all the other parrots: What do you feel we should do about it that does not involve potentially giving the Republican Party control of the very thing you’re verbalizing so hard to stand up for?

Been waiting for this since Trump decided to attack her and her fanbase, and misuse her image without her permission.

Go on, you MAGA idiots, start shouting at Taylor Swift. I dare you.

So if Harris stutters a little you’re not going to lose your shit, right?

Sure. Except those on the Left won’t. Couple reasons:

1. Can’t agree on a reason.

2. Won’t agree on a where and when.

3. Will disagree whether it’s worth it right now.

The first thing I did when I was issued a laptop for a job was check for monitoring software of any type. The second thing I did was become extremely suspicious when I couldn’t find any. I suppose the rule is “most likely” or “more often than not” while also being “always assume”.

Authoritative knee jerk with a bit of ignorance thrown in.

I mean, I won’t hold her to this promise if you guys don’t.

suspicious whistling

I’ll add misleading verbiage to that short-list. We are not the “same party” or “blueMAGA”. Not only is it insulting, it is also purposefully spreading misinformation, and is worth fighting against.

That’s unfortunate. We really do need voices that are willing to speak out, even if it means being looked at as some naysayer. It just has to be done with reason and patience, which can be tough to achieve.

Anyway, I appreciate you letting me know! A little bit of tapping away on my phone to maybe change a mind for the better is a small price. Even if most of those who do come here with an agenda are unlikely to listen. Ah well! I tried!

No, we’re not like MAGA. I can’t speak for everyone in this case, I am sure there are some who will take it too far. That’s part of the nature of divisiveness. That said, let me make a list of what those on the left do agree on:

1. Universal healthcare
2. Positive, even progressive, policies and direction
3. Federal support of the 4-day work week
4. Stronger emphasis and follow-thru on climate change
5. Ending the war in Ukraine (not to the disadvantage of the Ukrainians or advantage of Putin) and the situation in Gaza
6. Slashing of the military budget (goes alongside universal healthcare)
7. Liveable wages and reasonable new childcare leave for any parent
8. Affordable education
9. Affordable life-saving drugs/life-changing drugs such as anti-depression meds AND universal acceptance of therapy
10. Businesses, owners, CEOs, and the billionaire class being held accountable
11. Trump. Prison. NOW
12. Increase on 1% taxes
13. Women’s reproductive rights
14. Minority rights
15. Gerrymandering limitations or outright ban
16. Burning down the electoral college
17. More than two viable political parties

I’m sure some stuff is missing. Ya’ll have to forgive me, I did my best off top of my head.

Somewhat more controversial is how some of us are tired of averting our eyes and turning our gazes away. Moreover, the Republicans play dirty. They fling shit, set fire to conversations, attempt to hide in plain sight in forums claiming to be someone else, will break laws if it means hurting someone they don’t like, and they may even attempt to overthrow a country. Let me just grab the citation on that last one.

We are not like MAGA. We are sick of the shit. I was one of the people who pushed for us to stop being so damned tolerant BECAUSE tolerance is a BIG reason why we’re where we are now. We believe in what’s on that list for the benefit of all. Republicans fight against it for the benefit of the few, and more importantly the injuring of those they do not like.

So when you call us blueMAGA. When you claim we are no better. Yeah, Homerian, we tell you to suck it, because it’s not true.

Btw, if Harris-Walz turned and started spouting MAGA bs, we’d turn on them in a heartbeat. We do not want a Trump or a MAGA in sheep’s clothing.

You have though. In other threads, for other reasons. We have interacted. I recently re-read the Odyssey, so your name stuck with me. I know you get commonly downvoted and challenged, which is why I’m trying to be, well…hopefully understanding and not condescending. It’s a fine line to walk and one I’m not sure I’m wise enough to navigate accurately, something you in fact point out. I’m not really sure how to fix that.

The reason I responded is because we aren’t blindly supporting Harris, and many of us are tired of the shit flinging the Right tends to rely on. This is why I approached you here. It isn’t necessarily that we don’t agree with facts you may present, it’s that you appear to us to be attempting to discount a hope we have that Harris and now Walz represents.

You do you. I just see you comment on here often and I feel as if it must be disheartening to constantly be getting downvoted. Challenge the status quo, express unpopular opinions. If you want people to not get defensive though, try to meet them on their level a bit. Unlike MAGA, we are reasonable. We will criticize Harris. It’s just at the point where the alternative is so incredibly, maliciously evil that we, and I, legitimately fear them succeeding. We bite back because for years we were tolerant. Enough is enough.

I don’t know if you’ll listen or understand. I just put myself in your shoes and wanted to express what I feel must be some reasons why you seem to be disagreed with so often. Whatever others might believe, we need people who will speak out. This is just my lame attempt to make your words reach people more clearly.

Homerian, I’ve been rather patient. We both deserve some level of respect, if only as fellow human beings. So when I ask people to move along it’s because I don’t feel you’ll have your mind or opinions changed by words on an online forum, largely due to how you don’t typically listen rationally.

Among other reasons, most of us who lean Left recognize that there are commonalities and where comparisons can be made between the radicalization of the Right, and some of the more radical positions those on the Left can take. We also know not every position taken on any side is inherently good or bad. For the most part we make judgment calls, which is why there are so many groups with even small differences in opinion not-on-the-Right and why we bicker. It’s a weakness we have as a larger community.

However, we are NOT MAGA. We do not subscribe willfully to a cult without first being tricked, nor do we go out of our way to cause harm. If Harris or Walz or Obama or fucking Abraham Lincoln came back and began yelling about how they will become King and suppress minorities, etc, we would absolutely turn against them. We follow those we follow because right now there aren’t many choices, something we intend to change. We see that this is a step in the right direction, and a big one at that. Despite our honestly very valid hatred of Trump and the modern GOP, we want what’s best for everyone in this country, including those on the Right. This is why we challenge you constantly. Because you’re someone that wants to speak out and we strongly feel that despite your arguments you are not making strong cases, and certainly appear to be working against this greater good we are attempting to establish.

I wouldn’t have spent this time if I don’t feel strongly that Harris-Walz is the right direction. Nor would I stand so often if there wasn’t something very real to lose. I just wish you, and others like you who don’t speak up, would understand that. Y’know?

Don’t bother with this one, folks. I recognize the name and that should tell you enough.

Move along now.

Move along.

Yup! We can return the favor by supporting Republicans who follow reason and act in good faith. We all recognize that in some places getting anyone left leaning elected is practically impossible. So what we can do is back a good red ticket instead. Just one of many courses we could take in the near future. If you squint, this also has the potential to lead into a three party system later on.

That said, accountability should be part of the game they’re playing.