So the factoid that makes up the basis of this claim is…
False.
I’ve read that the earthworm is not indigenous to the United States. Is that true?
Molly Chatterton | Shaftsbury, Vermont
No. Earthworms are native to the United States, says Melissa McCormick, ecologist at the Smithsonian Environmental Research Center, but the earthworms in some northern parts of the country (including Vermont) aren’t indigenous. Thousands of years ago, glaciers that covered North America and reached as far south as present-day Illinois, Indiana and Ohio wiped out native earthworms. Species from Europe and Asia, most likely introduced unintentionally in ship ballast or the roots of imported plants, have spread throughout North America.
The only world where the majority of North America doesn’t have native earthworms is the Mercator projection. Sure, there are both non-native and invasive earthworms; however, its almost inevitable that these organisms would have made it this far north at some point: they were almost assuredly there prior to the latest glaciation. Owing to the fact that its not covered in a mile of ice any more, the worms were coming.
Oh shit
The plot thickens
Now I’m confused. Here’s what Wikipedia says. The last ice age was 11,000 years ago, so presumably they should have spread back out northwards since then… or maybe they needed to evolve the ability to survive in the cold first, which they haven’t had time to do? IDK.
I’ll edit the title to be more accurate. I don’t necessarily see a conflict between the fine details of what the article says / what Wikipedia says / what Smithsonian says, but my title is misleading and the careless way I read the article led me to totally misunderstand it.
11k years isn’t a ton of time. But yeah, I’m sure 🦆🪿 have been crapping out worm 🪱 🥚 s. Also consider that the premise of them existing is based on a sampling of some data.
Academically I consider myself a scientific materialist, which means I’m trying to believe as little as I possibly can(but not more). The way I try to think about these things is in terms of abstractions of belief; I believe the field data however much I do based on their protocol and method; I believe the derived statistics from those data quite a bit less depending whatever uncertainty metrics they offer and the specific procedure; I believe the conclusions even less depending on how well supported, and I believe theory, an abstraction and consolidation of conclusions and results the least.
I’m spelling this out because I don’t believe scientific philosophy or it’s extensions to be well taught or understood by both ley and trained individuals. There is a tension that exists between theoreticians and experimentalists, that frankly, the theoreticians are regularlly coming out on the wrong side of. I think this has its origins in the academic tradition of western civilization coming from religion. I work to invert the belief structure by focusing on only having to believe the most minimum that I need to believe.
This is where factoids become, well problematic. There is a tendency to see scientifically generated statements as statements of fact, when actually, for a scientific statement to be scientific, it can’t be taken to be 100% true. At it’s core, the statement needs to be falsifiable to be a scientific statement. Which means, it can’t be 100% true; there needs to be at least some epsilon of uncertainty for a statement to be falsifiable, which means while we might be highly confident in it, there is some potential it just may not be that way.
But the tradition of religion doesn’t work that way. Truth is absolute in the religious philosophies that underpin the western academic tradition. So culturally there is this tendency to want to ‘believe’ the most abstracted elements of scientific work (conclusions, theories, etc…), when in fact these elements are the things we should believe the least, because of the cultural definitions and understandings of truth that these traditions find their roots in.
So it’s not unusual to want to make broad statements of fact from limited information, but we should be considering the caveat that this thing we are saying is what we believe the least. We may still believe it, but we believe the statistics used the generate the conclusion moreso, and we believe the data generated to support the statistics even moreso. It’s just not particularly interesting to humans to say something along the lines of “We did not find evidence of earthworm behavior in this sediment, that sediment or that other sediment over there”, when in fact that is where we should be putting the majority of the weight of our belief (assuming you subscribe to scientific materialist as a way of getting at the truth of things).
Factoids don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story, but just because something is pleasing to think, this has no bearing on its relationship to truth.
This is a fascinating analysis of culture and religion of origin and it’s influence on scientific views. I also admire your rigorous skepticism, but I have a question:
Why, for the love of Om, did you used emojis like you did?
🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕
🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕🎩🌕🌕🌕
🌕🌕🌕🌕🌘🌑🌒🌕🌕
🌕🌕🌕🌘🌑🌑🌑🌓🌕
🌕🌕🌖🌑👁🌑👁🌓🌕
🌕🌕🌗🌑🌑👄🌑🌔🌕
🌘(I like spicy memes)🌒
🌕🌕🌘🌑🌑🌑🌒🌕🌕
🌕🌕🌘🌑🌑🎀🌓🌕🌕
🌕🌕🌘🌑🌑🌑🌔🌕🌕
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🌕🌖🌒🌕🌗🌒🌕🌕🌕
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The European worms colonizers brought are fine, they’re similar enough to the ones that used to be here.
What’s bad are the “crazy worms” which I believe come from Asia?
You can tell the difference because a normal worm just moves around like you’d expect. A “crazy worm” is like a fish out of water violently flopping around.
Those you should kill because they’re invasive.
But the worms we remember as kids are fine. Just non-native, but that’s different than evasive.
I think you literally made 100% of the first half of this up
There are no earthworms that used to be here; read the article. Crazy worms do exactly the same thing (remove the layer of leaf litter that traditional NA boreal forests depend on), they just spread a little more quickly which makes it a little more of a problem. But the essential issue is the same. And I don’t think killing either one of them makes any difference at all; humans will not encounter either one on anything even remotely similar to the scale that would make going after them on an individual level a useful thing to do.
Edit: Okay I am totally wrong; the article talks about northern forests only, and what I’m saying isn’t true of the US / North America as a whole.
There are no earthworms that used to be here; read the article.
Admittedly I didn’t, because I already know this.
But here you go:
During the last ice age, which ended roughly 10,000 years ago, a massive ice sheet covered what’s roughly the northern third of the continent. Scientists think that this most recent glaciation killed off the earthworms that may have inhabited the area.
Only had to get to second paragraph…
There are no earthworms that used to be here; read the article
Thats uh…
Thats 100% false.
Can you provide a source?
If not, just know that I would have to reject your claims, seeing as how they contradict information from a reputable source.
If you’re asking for a source be specific…
If not, just know that the person you’re asking will either ignore you or have to randomly guess what you mean.
During the last ice age, which ended roughly 10,000 years ago, a massive ice sheet covered what’s roughly the northern third of the continent. Scientists think that this most recent glaciation killed off the earthworms that may have inhabited the area.
Um, please source specifically the entirety of your claims…???
What are you even talking about?!
I was trying to give you the chance to specifically ask what you wanted a source for…
Because I was trying to help you, despite your attitude.
The European worms colonizers brought are fine, they’re similar enough to the ones that used to be here.
What’s bad are the “crazy worms” which I believe come from Asia?
You can tell the difference because a normal worm just moves around like you’d expect. A “crazy worm” is like a fish out of water violently flopping around.
Those you should kill because they’re invasive.
But the worms we remember as kids are fine. Just non-native, but that’s different than evasive.
There, its specific now. Provide sources
OPs article actually backs up most of that…
And if you didn’t read that (don’t feel too bad, neither did OP) why would I take the time to find more articles you won’t read?
How about a quiz, if you accurately find the answers that are in the article, and post the answers you found for the class, I’ll find sources for the rest.
Show me you care about learning more than arguing, and I have zero issues taking the time to help.
Don’t, and that’s cool. But I’m not here to argue, so I’ll probably just block you
