At the heart of all Trump administration policies is ‘soft eugenics’ thinking – the idea that if you take away life-saving services, then only the strong will survive
1.) Well, yes. It’s reality, playing out around us all the time, for the reasons I listed. The evidence: web search ‘marriage rates in the US’, and see they are on a very steep decline. Women open the door to the bedroom, but it is men that open the door to the home, and marriage. Marriage rates are on a steep decline…because men are opting out of the institution of marriage (as it is currently configured), choosing instead to cohabitate or MGTOW.
2.) There is societal programming, and enough of it is good & right & leads to the benefit of society as well as the individual. But specifically marriage, I just don’t know how much it benefits the man anymore, but it’s still pushed. I think men need to be presented with all the facts, presented with options they might not have even considered & hard-checked like listen: have you really thought this through? One side is all pro-marriage, don’t think about it just do it. Isn’t it only fair to list some good reasons to…not? Men’s lives are at stake.
Men aren’t dumb; men are watching other men in their relationships, we know half or more of all marriages end in divorce, we know 70% of divorces are initiated by women, we see how it plays out in divorces, we see alimony & child support…we have more access to information than ever before. If you’d like to learn more straight facts & statistics, presented in as condensed of a form as possible, I recommend you check out “The Book of Numbers: Analyzing the ROI on the Pursuit of Women” by Aaron Clarey. What are the chances of getting married? Of staying married? Even if the marriage lasts, will you be, you know, happy and/or better off for having married? It’s a compelling read that makes a rock solid case for MGTOW.
It’s a red-pill movement, but not a black-pill. As outlined in Aaron Clarey’s book The Menu: Life Without the Opposite Sex.. Enough of society tries to tie marriage/family with life itself, and how if you fail to marry or have children, your life is meaningless. Men internalize this bullshit, and are killing themselves at record rates. Men account for 80% of suicides, and suicide is the #1 cause of death for men under 50. MGTOW teaches that regardless of whether you can’t get into a relationship, or you choose not to, or you got into a bad one & it failed, that’s not a reason to end your life. You can have a happy, strong, fulfilled life sans marriage, significant other.
“Well, yes. It’s reality, playing out around us all the time, for the reasons I listed.”
So you don’t have an actual citation?
“Women open the door to the bedroom, but it is men that open the door to the home, and marriage.”
Citation needed.
“Marriage rates are on a steep decline…because men are opting out of the institution of marriage (as it is currently configured), choosing instead to cohabitate or MGTOW.”
You can’t think of any other explanation? Such as the rise in societal isolation causes by capitalism, such as the decline in third spaces, or people just having less money to spend on weddings compared to in the past?
“But specifically marriage, I just don’t know how much it benefits the man anymore, but it’s still pushed.”
Sure. I don’t think it benefits men or women. It should not be held up as a standard and instead, other options should also be presented. I don’t think this has much to do with your talking points however and I think framing opposition to marriage as being part of a gender war does more harm to the anti-amatonirmativity movement than it does help.
“One side is all pro-marriage, don’t think about it just do it. Isn’t it only fair to list some good reasons to…not?”
Which side is pro-mariage? I’m only aware of conservatives (and dumb liberals who haven’t thought through their positions, so still conservatives).
“Men’s lives are at stake.”
Not just men’s lives, but also women’s lives, the lives of queer people, especially aromantic, asexual and popyamorous people. The marriage norm is harming everyone due to it pushing a relationship norm that enables abuse. You won’t see a defense of marriage as it exists now from me.
“If you’d like to learn more straight facts & statistics, presented in as condensed of a form as possible, I recommend you check out “The Book of Numbers: Analyzing the ROI on the Pursuit of Women” by Aaron Clarey. What are the chances of getting married? Of staying married? Even if the marriage lasts, will you be, you know, happy and/or better off for having married? It’s a compelling read that makes a rock solid case for MGTOW.”
From my look at the blurb, I simply disagree that the history is driven by men’s pursuit of sex. It is driven by people’s desire to obtain food, shelter etc. to survive it’s gatekeeping by the ruling class, which yesteryear were the feudal class but are now the capitalist class. Men, women, and envies alike should unite to overthrow this class.
"Enough of society tries to tie marriage/family with life itself, and how if you fail to marry or have children, your life is meaningless. Men internalize this bullshit, and are killing themselves at record rates. Men account for 80% of suicides, and suicide is the #1 cause of death for men under 50. "
The red pill is a stupid ideology but this part is correct. But it is the capitalist class that encourages men to do this to keep them to busy to question society, organize together with women, and overthrow capitalism.
“MGTOW teaches that regardless of whether you can’t get into a relationship, or you choose not to, or you got into a bad one & it failed, that’s not a reason to end your life. You can have a happy, strong, fulfilled life sans marriage, significant other.”
Also going to give a bonus, that “smarter” comment was just a quick little aside thrown into the larger & not entirely connected argument against marriage. I was referring to not having children, a second argument that could have been a separate paragraph, but I didn’t want to make the comment even longer. That’s kind of a format error on my part, and I apologize.
And yes, there is also proof of that. Web search ‘higher education lower birth rate’, verbatim, and you’ll see supporting evidence. All around the world, more education, overall less babies.
Now it’s important to not be overly reductive and actually think, “Me smart, me have no babies. You have babies, you dumb .” Not true. But all the various factors surrounding being in a first world country, having access to resources, better work opportunities, and yes having a higher education & access to more information…very much tends to lead…to having fewer and/or no children. Again, it’s playing out around us, we’re below replacement rate like many other developed nations around the world.
But there’s just no need to produce children like there is in developing or third world countries. In some countries, they’re popping out all the babies they can because they don’t even know how many will survive into adulthood. In countries with no law or support, children are the poor man’s pension. It’s a proven method that works, there’s more at stake, that’s all they know, that’s what they do. And I get that.
I find myself in very different circumstances, with very different rules of engagement & on its face extremely limited payoff for having children. Selfish analysis aside, I personally believe having children (especially now) is a little selfish & I don’t want to bring children into this world to be mere financial batteries for the state. Additionally, when polled, 15% of parents admit to regretting having kids. And if you ask me it’s at least 15%, it’s the 15% that have the balls to admit it. I have a friend like that, told me he regretted becoming a parent. And idk it’s hard to say “what might have been” & whatnot, but given my personality & my beliefs I’m inclined to think that I would also be in that 15%. After I aged up & learned more than I knew at 18-26 years old. Young, dumb, full of cum & whatnot.
“And yes, there is also proof of that. Web search ‘higher education lower birth rate’, verbatim, and you’ll see supporting evidence. All around the world, more education, overall less babies.”
I’m asking for supporting evidence that 1) this is an active choice and 2) this is driven by men.
Two questions:
“it’s just that men are looking at…” Do you have any evidence that men in general are doing that? Or specifically “smarter” ones?
Why do you need a specific reason to not be in a relationship, as opposed to a reason to be in one?
1.) Well, yes. It’s reality, playing out around us all the time, for the reasons I listed. The evidence: web search ‘marriage rates in the US’, and see they are on a very steep decline. Women open the door to the bedroom, but it is men that open the door to the home, and marriage. Marriage rates are on a steep decline…because men are opting out of the institution of marriage (as it is currently configured), choosing instead to cohabitate or MGTOW.
2.) There is societal programming, and enough of it is good & right & leads to the benefit of society as well as the individual. But specifically marriage, I just don’t know how much it benefits the man anymore, but it’s still pushed. I think men need to be presented with all the facts, presented with options they might not have even considered & hard-checked like listen: have you really thought this through? One side is all pro-marriage, don’t think about it just do it. Isn’t it only fair to list some good reasons to…not? Men’s lives are at stake.
Men aren’t dumb; men are watching other men in their relationships, we know half or more of all marriages end in divorce, we know 70% of divorces are initiated by women, we see how it plays out in divorces, we see alimony & child support…we have more access to information than ever before. If you’d like to learn more straight facts & statistics, presented in as condensed of a form as possible, I recommend you check out “The Book of Numbers: Analyzing the ROI on the Pursuit of Women” by Aaron Clarey. What are the chances of getting married? Of staying married? Even if the marriage lasts, will you be, you know, happy and/or better off for having married? It’s a compelling read that makes a rock solid case for MGTOW.
It’s a red-pill movement, but not a black-pill. As outlined in Aaron Clarey’s book The Menu: Life Without the Opposite Sex.. Enough of society tries to tie marriage/family with life itself, and how if you fail to marry or have children, your life is meaningless. Men internalize this bullshit, and are killing themselves at record rates. Men account for 80% of suicides, and suicide is the #1 cause of death for men under 50. MGTOW teaches that regardless of whether you can’t get into a relationship, or you choose not to, or you got into a bad one & it failed, that’s not a reason to end your life. You can have a happy, strong, fulfilled life sans marriage, significant other.
“Well, yes. It’s reality, playing out around us all the time, for the reasons I listed.”
So you don’t have an actual citation?
“Women open the door to the bedroom, but it is men that open the door to the home, and marriage.”
Citation needed.
“Marriage rates are on a steep decline…because men are opting out of the institution of marriage (as it is currently configured), choosing instead to cohabitate or MGTOW.”
You can’t think of any other explanation? Such as the rise in societal isolation causes by capitalism, such as the decline in third spaces, or people just having less money to spend on weddings compared to in the past?
“But specifically marriage, I just don’t know how much it benefits the man anymore, but it’s still pushed.”
Sure. I don’t think it benefits men or women. It should not be held up as a standard and instead, other options should also be presented. I don’t think this has much to do with your talking points however and I think framing opposition to marriage as being part of a gender war does more harm to the anti-amatonirmativity movement than it does help.
“One side is all pro-marriage, don’t think about it just do it. Isn’t it only fair to list some good reasons to…not?”
Which side is pro-mariage? I’m only aware of conservatives (and dumb liberals who haven’t thought through their positions, so still conservatives).
“Men’s lives are at stake.”
Not just men’s lives, but also women’s lives, the lives of queer people, especially aromantic, asexual and popyamorous people. The marriage norm is harming everyone due to it pushing a relationship norm that enables abuse. You won’t see a defense of marriage as it exists now from me.
“If you’d like to learn more straight facts & statistics, presented in as condensed of a form as possible, I recommend you check out “The Book of Numbers: Analyzing the ROI on the Pursuit of Women” by Aaron Clarey. What are the chances of getting married? Of staying married? Even if the marriage lasts, will you be, you know, happy and/or better off for having married? It’s a compelling read that makes a rock solid case for MGTOW.”
From my look at the blurb, I simply disagree that the history is driven by men’s pursuit of sex. It is driven by people’s desire to obtain food, shelter etc. to survive it’s gatekeeping by the ruling class, which yesteryear were the feudal class but are now the capitalist class. Men, women, and envies alike should unite to overthrow this class.
"Enough of society tries to tie marriage/family with life itself, and how if you fail to marry or have children, your life is meaningless. Men internalize this bullshit, and are killing themselves at record rates. Men account for 80% of suicides, and suicide is the #1 cause of death for men under 50. "
The red pill is a stupid ideology but this part is correct. But it is the capitalist class that encourages men to do this to keep them to busy to question society, organize together with women, and overthrow capitalism.
“MGTOW teaches that regardless of whether you can’t get into a relationship, or you choose not to, or you got into a bad one & it failed, that’s not a reason to end your life. You can have a happy, strong, fulfilled life sans marriage, significant other.”
You can have all of this without MGTOW.
Also going to give a bonus, that “smarter” comment was just a quick little aside thrown into the larger & not entirely connected argument against marriage. I was referring to not having children, a second argument that could have been a separate paragraph, but I didn’t want to make the comment even longer. That’s kind of a format error on my part, and I apologize.
And yes, there is also proof of that. Web search ‘higher education lower birth rate’, verbatim, and you’ll see supporting evidence. All around the world, more education, overall less babies.
Now it’s important to not be overly reductive and actually think, “Me smart, me have no babies. You have babies, you dumb .” Not true. But all the various factors surrounding being in a first world country, having access to resources, better work opportunities, and yes having a higher education & access to more information…very much tends to lead…to having fewer and/or no children. Again, it’s playing out around us, we’re below replacement rate like many other developed nations around the world.
But there’s just no need to produce children like there is in developing or third world countries. In some countries, they’re popping out all the babies they can because they don’t even know how many will survive into adulthood. In countries with no law or support, children are the poor man’s pension. It’s a proven method that works, there’s more at stake, that’s all they know, that’s what they do. And I get that.
I find myself in very different circumstances, with very different rules of engagement & on its face extremely limited payoff for having children. Selfish analysis aside, I personally believe having children (especially now) is a little selfish & I don’t want to bring children into this world to be mere financial batteries for the state. Additionally, when polled, 15% of parents admit to regretting having kids. And if you ask me it’s at least 15%, it’s the 15% that have the balls to admit it. I have a friend like that, told me he regretted becoming a parent. And idk it’s hard to say “what might have been” & whatnot, but given my personality & my beliefs I’m inclined to think that I would also be in that 15%. After I aged up & learned more than I knew at 18-26 years old. Young, dumb, full of cum & whatnot.
“And yes, there is also proof of that. Web search ‘higher education lower birth rate’, verbatim, and you’ll see supporting evidence. All around the world, more education, overall less babies.”
I’m asking for supporting evidence that 1) this is an active choice and 2) this is driven by men.
There are multiple factors to work, muh both sides, but MGTOW is very much a thing. You can rabbithole for weeks. 45% of young Gen Z men aged 18-25 have never approached a woman in person for a date. It can be argued that is an active choice, not even approaching women.
Are you sure this isn’t because of online dating? Or some other way of developing relationships?