Projects like Plex, they started out from the open source community, had free contributions, and then monetized. People are bastardizing open source.
The reason Plex is as popular as it is is because of their infrastructure and software that lets users stream video and music remotely on any device at the press of a button. That costs money to build and maintain.
It certainly doesn’t cost what they’re charging. They have a cache, a relay and an auth service. I’ll grant them some more allowance for an active security team. They’ve wasted manyears on features nobody wants and have eliminated any feature that costs them any amount of money to maintain if they can’t make money off it. (sync, client serve, yada yada)
Really? Cuz Jellyfin literally does the same thing and doesn’t cost money.
In fairness to Plex, I bought a Lifetime subscription during a Black Friday deal over a decade ago and it’s still serving me well to this day.
I have jellyfin set up ready to go but Plex has the UX down at this point. I’ll keep using it whilst my lifetime subscription remains valid.
Same here, JF is on reserve but I’ll be sad if I ever need to switch. Ever since they fixed downloads I have 0 major complaints. Plex just works, and it works very well for my and my family’s needs. I am perfectly happy paying once for software that I use every single day.
God I hate their last UX change. It’s like they specifically designed the roku client to hide your own content and favor theirs, used to be one click into my library and everything was there.
I have a Jellyfin server as backup, but its clients are shit for anything that uses subtitles. I bought plex pass years back for $80 on sale, can’t complain, but I’m never going to wholly rely on something closed source that requires online credentials.
I’ve never used Plex, but I have my own server at Hetzner with large drives and I love my Jellyfin server. I use it every day for shows, movies, and tons of music at home, in the metro, and walking around town and traveling. I’ve never had a problem with it. Honestly, it’s fantastic.
I can’t comment on Plex vs JellyFin, but it’s an interesting perspective that $3/mon for remote access is too much
I use another piece of opensource software, where I consider that a plus. It takes the headache and security issues off my hands, while I can support the developers with a small contribution for an optional feature
$3/mon is $36 a year. That adds up - most people have to work several hours to earn that money.
Plex may also be harvesting your data. When I used it years ago it was already trying to send logs back home, blocked by the firewall.
Plex may also be harvesting your data.
You mean to say “Plex is harvesting your data.”
I like to not legally commit myself
🤣
If I could get Jellyfin to work remotely I would never use Plex again quite happily. I pay £4 a month and my in laws have to pay £2 a month for remote access, it’s starting to add up for content I download and host on my storage.
You just can’t securely watch anything from your jellyfin server remotely, or let others stream from your server.
The 20+ people who stream from my Plex server have never paid a cent because I have a Plex lifetime pass. In terms of value it’s one of the best purchases I’ve ever made.
Tried Jellyfin, lacked critical functionality, got Plex, was amazed and got a lifetime pass and never worried about it again
Critical functionality like what? I just switched to Jellyfin and hardly noticed a difference aside from a few different bugs.
It’s a perennial thing with Jellyfin that it doesn’t have the app / remote access support Plex provides. By itself it’s a fully functional network media server, but by design it doesn’t have the ability to reverse tunnel and it doesn’t have the corporate infrastructure that gets it’s app onto devices.
Yes you can set up wireguard / VPN access. Yes there are workarounds that can get Jellyfin streaming to most devices.
None of that matters when trying to talk someone on the phone through connecting to your server through the internet.
Plex is an account, it looks like a streaming service, it requires zero knowledge. I’m fairly certain some of my relatives have no idea it’s streaming from a server in my basement. Jellyfin they have to trust you enough to setup separate other apps / configuration and have the patience / attention span / ability to follow directions to do so.
Reverse proxy to jellyfin looks identical to a normal streaming service from a user’s perspective.
It’s been a decade. That should be in JF by now.
Reverse proxy doesn’t fix their unprotected endpoints. It doesn’t give their clients 2fa, it doesn’t make their search work reasonably well or their music client be able to preload the next song.
They’re kind of stuck in a rut and are down to basic maintenance for releases
Jellyfin has plugins fro both LDAPand OIDC, though IIRC the OIDC one isn’t great.
Remote play……
Library sharing…,
Apps on everything….
You can do all that on JF. Apps are def available on most things.
If you really wanted to try to complain about it, you should complain about security, search speed and subtitle support.
Remote play you can’t unless you want to open your network up to the internet, which is a terrible idea, and even then most TVs and devices don’t have a JellyFin app.
Remote play you can’t unless you want to open your network up to the internet,
That’s absolutely wrong. You can remote proxy the same way they do, sure to the edge. you can open just the port and sandbox the container. There are ways.
and even then most TVs and devices don’t have a JellyFin app.
Almost every streaming device outside of TV’s are covered and many tv’s already support it. Every roku and android tv support it, along with most samsungs.
Tell me, are you guys getting paid by a plex PR firm or something, you all feel lots of ways about things with very little information and tons of white lies.
Out of curiosity, what “critical functionality” was it lacking?
My media player is an ancient Chromecast 4k Ultra (yes, I hate google, but I also hate buying new things) and I can’t cast from Jellyfin.
Ohh! ohh! I have a wishlist!
- Finish the DB upgrade. The search is unusable on large collections, as a matter of fact, why not just go MySQL/PG?
- Protect ALL the endpoints if you’re not logged in.
- Include 2FA on server/clients
- Closed captioning still turns on in some clients if you have caption language->default instead of captions->default
- Add a failed login file so we can use the actual fail2ban instead of the static one that’s included.
- Release a full music api so we can control the playlist status from a client and preload the next song for crossfading without breaking the playlist.
- Put in hooks to properly support elasticsearch
- Clean up the plugin workflow, it’s confusing AF
- Better playlist support. The only way to bulk create a playlist is to generate m3u, but once you generate m3u, the client is unable to manage it. Either make a clean bulk playlist editor or have the editors be able to import and delete the m3us.
It’s not really about cost for me. Accounts in control of someone else and increased fees to use my own hardware can take a long walk off a short pier.
If only people applied these principles to all software…
I started selfhosting just because throwing cash on subscriptions at big corpos is not feasible since subs are increasing on a year-on-year basis. To my mind, if I’m going to self-host to yet again pay sub prices defeats the sole purpose of selfhosting.
That money you can pocket and invest in your own hardware for spare parts, upgrades & the like
You could also consider donating it to the projects you are hosting. Because developing that software still takes a lot of labour and these devs really need it
I was a big supporter of PLEX for a lot of years but I don’t want all the streaming options and ads and crap it was giving me. All I want is a solid media server application and Plex was no longer it.
JellyFin has been fantastic. I’ll never go back
I got Plex set up for my media server literally the day before they hiked the prices. I was weary about the $150 lifetime and couldn’t afford the new price when they changed it so I went to jellyfin.
Turns out jellyfin was everything I wanted and free. Bought 5 years worth of unlimited hosting and a domain name for less than a month of Plex and now I’m well on my way to a pirate media empire.
Just wish I had anyone other than my spouse to share if with… Or that I could figure out fucking MusicBrainz…
Hey I’m just learning about Jellyfin and have one question that maybe you have a take on.
How do we know that Jellyfin isn’t just one step behind Plex on the enshittification scale? Is it structurally different somehow? Open source or something?
There was a time when Plex was the bees knees and everyone loved it, and now they’re putting th screws to us. Why should we believe another group won’t do the same?
Everyone else has the real details, but from my very amateur perspective thee big part is that it’s not connected anywhere else and it’s open source. I have to have an account with Plex to use Plex, so no matter what I do I always have to have there permission to get in the building. Jellyfin runs on my own box and stores its files in that box. I even know the exact directory my account is in. If they decide to push an update that doesn’t jive with me, I just won’t update my machine. If it goes off the rails at any point, there’s at least thousands of jellyfin users that actually know what they’re doing and we’ll have a new jellyfin with black jack and hookers in less than a fortnight.
Jellyfin is FOSS. Taking a single step towards the Plex route will be going against the ethos of Jellyfin as a whole. It is community owned - rather than private, and if there are unethical practice’s involved, then people can and will jump ship forking the whole project at nearly 1:1 scale.
Because of the way jellyfin is built and the underlying philosophy. It can’t enshitify that easily as Plex - it will need a massive community effort to change it.
It is also useful to read on the history of jellyfin as it does highlight some useful pointers.
That’s all correct, but… we aren’t absolutely in the clear. JF could absolutely be forked, DB changes enacted, security added, but you also need all those client devs to come along.
It’s not quite like most Foss where a couple people could jump in and do a better job, JF has a LOT of moving parts supported by a number of individuals.
Also, Plex controls the login/authentication through their portal, and can also receive data back from your host regarding the content being shared/watched.
Jellyfin is 100% locally configured accounts
Jellyfin itself is Emby. Emby was owned by a company and it enshittified at the speed of light, and that’s when Jellyfin was born (by forking the last open source version of Emby).
In the time it took you to write this comment you could have gone to the Jellyfin website and read the first 12 words on the page:
The Free Software Media System
Jellyfin is the volunteer-built media solution
I’m never going to apologize for asking questions on Reddit or Lemmy. This is a place for talking to people. In the time it took you to chastise me you could have stuck your thumb up your ass 17 times.
Meanwhile, I got a perfectly good answer from someone else. Thanks for nothing.
I think it just shows you actually don’t care. I think some of the things you asked could be interesting if you had done any of your own reading first and had some context, but what you did instead was ask us to tell you what to think.
You can go do that on Reddit, or do you think that’s where you are now?
I quite like that people ask simple questions like this. Sure, it could have been looked up really quickly, but it adds to the overall thread here. People reading this with no prior knowledge can browse through the comments and absorb more information.
My bad I use 3rd party app clients for both Reddit and Lemmy and they look much alike.
It makes no difference though, because Lemmy is a place for talking to people too.
When you already know the answer it’s very easy to “ackshually” someone and tell them just how they could have googled it in a second.
But when you don’t know what you don’t know, it’s not so simple. For example: when my question is “how do we know Jellyfin will not eventually go down the path of enshittification as well?” It doesn’t occur to me to just start reading their homepage and see if I stumble into an answer. Excuuuuuuuse me.
Anyway…
But, my friend, it is in the article. We’re not hanging out chatting and the idea of Jellyfin came up. We’re in a discussion about the article. You showed up to the book club and asked us to tell you about the book because you didn’t read it.
Gatekeeping lemmy. Classy.
Nah I was making fun of them for initially saying they wouldn’t apologize for asking questions on Reddit, when on Lemmy lmao
As in you set it up outside your home server for only that? What’s the hard drive capacity there? Can you share a link to this offer?
I may not be using the right lingo, I mean I bought a domain set up a tunneling service so that I don’t have have to struggle with keeping it online or teaching the family to use VPNs and stuff. I just give them my website, tell them the account info, and it works on the jellyfin app.
Several years ago I was looking to set up a media server and initially grabbed Plex because I’d heard so much good about it at the time. The moment it asked me to create an account with Plex during setup and I discovered this wasn’t optional I immediately uninstalled it.
I remain baffled that anyone was okay with needing an externally managed account in order to use software running entirely on their own hardware, let alone the litany of additional enshittification that has happened since.
You clearly don’t understand why Plex requires an account then. Hint: it’s for the features that make it the most popular and best self hosted media server software on the market.
Their centralized login and services offer some pretty good upsides, that is, before the company started enshittifying the hell out of us.
Anyone you want to share your stuff with, they make an account, They see your server and your content. There are no ip’s, no ports, no configuration.
They handle a limited quality proxy, you’re users behind CGNat? They can still watch your content. Don’t want to open your firewall up? It still works for limited quality.
They cache TheMovieDB, being good neighbors.
They cache EPG, making live tvguide data work for people with tuners.
They provide you with a credible SSL. Your traffic is opaque to your ISP and your network.
They provide you with 2FA.
That said:
- You are the product
- Your users are the product
- What you watch is tracked
- What your users watch is tracked
- Their clients are not your friends.
That would be fine for an optional account if you want this features and the tradeoff that comes with it. Making it mandatory is bad.
I fully agree that what they did is openly bad. Just that it’s not for nothing.
When plex initially exploded in popularity, the alternatives required like manual xml config, constant babying the database, and generally barely worked.
Plex had apps on all the devices from wii to your phone and just worked. There was also lots of promises of privacy, you owning your data, segregating accounts to coordinating direct access, etc etc. It was almost a no brainer because there was no alternative that could deliver that experience.
Now is very different. The vibes at plex are very different, the world is a lot more hostile to privacy, and there are open source alternatives that get very close to the same experience.
So for a lot of people, yeah, plex doesn’t make sense anymore.
Yeah if I were starting now I’d be looking at jellyfin. But I paid the lifetime plex pass, and inertia/laziness what it is, so I haven’t found a reason to actually switch yet.
Neat idea, they don’t interfere with each other. Run both so that when plex finally fucks us over, we just stop using it.
I thought the same until I was bored one saturday afternoon and set up jellyfin as something to do. I haven’t taken my ples server offline only because I don’t want to help my users switch.
Same. I’m kinda half migrated running both but plex is convenient and (for me) still free.
Networking is a big aspect. I have almost 40 friends on plex, about 10 of them actively use my library. I also have access to 8 other plex servers in my circle. And I can put all the “latest added episodes” up on my homescreen with a few clicks.
With jellyfin I’d have to have at least 8 different accounts on 8 different instances.
And while the social aspect isn’t great, I found a few interesting people by looking at plex reviews of recently airing shows. Or just finding people through “friends of friends”.
There is a lot of things to be gained by having a central account and a connection beyond just very selective accounts on your own server, it really shouldn’t be that baffling.
Plex is a really nice app. And the people who really like it justify in their head the need for the external account. Some will twist up into a froth arguing the need for it.
I think some people may get too emotional over such matters. But if it works for them, carry on my frothy friends.
Truth is, 99% of people really don’t care.
I’ve had so many instances of free to use, lifetime licenses, and purchased software that have turned into subscription services that I refuse to install anything that requires an account unless it can’t be avoided. The fact that Plex required an account be created to view my own local content years before they started charging for use made it obvious subscription fees were coming.
Jellyfin works great. Combined with Wireguard it works great anywhere.
My only hitch making the switch to Jellyfin is that a couple of my TVs just don’t have a jellyfin app whatsoever. I wish they did, I can’t stand all the changes Plex has made over the last few years specifically.
Spin up pihole and just look at the data coming to your “smart” TV’s even when you are not using them. Then consider the data they must be sending home, the only thing “smart” TVs are good at is watching you watch them (or not watching them). I would highly recommend getting a pi or media computer for your TV’s.
I do not think I can stress this enough smart TV’s are not smart for you they are smart for whoever made the TV. Manufactures sell TV’s at a loss now because they get more by selling you.
highly recommend getting a pi or media computer
Been looking at this for years, Fam is absolutely refusing to use a keyboard in the living room. They’ll watch on their phones first. I can’t find a clear, easy solution to run a quality remote on a SFF pc. It’s like the decades old mediacenter hole that never gets filled.
I had a pi 5 that I was going to use as my set top box and install the media centre OS on it, Jeff Geerling shows how you can do it with a pi 5, but it got damaged when my place flooded and insurance does its thing to screw you over and I never got around to testing it.
Thanks for that, flirc might be worth my time to look.
I need some of those codecs to perform better, but I can probably stand up a more agile box than a Pi.
They do not sell TVs at a loss lol.
Retailers don’t, but those $300 60" TVs cost manufacturers more than that in parts and shipping. They are 100% making up for it in LTV from your data, that’s why some are trying to make it impossible not to use them when not connected to the internet.
but those $300 60" TVs cost manufacturers more than that in parts and shipping.
They don’t.
nice argument you place there. meet my blocklist
Wait, you’re that same guy just shilling for plex aren’t you?
Oh my, go check that post history people, they’re either a PR plant or just trolling
Look at an major TV manufactures books and the TV part is a loss, the income they get from the TV is selling you to advertisers.
Look at an major TV manufactures books and the TV part is a loss, the income they get from the TV is selling you to advertisers.
I’d love to see your source for this. I won’t hold my breathe because it’s simply not true.
I am waiting on your apology or rebuttal!
https://www.fool.com/investing/2024/01/16/people-think-roku-makes-money-selling-streaming-st/
https://www.mensjournal.com/entertainment/tech-smart-tv-screenshots-acr-tracking-privacy-lg-samsung
https://jamestown.org/connected-smart-tv-security-risks/
https://taurusx.com/resource/480275.html
For a peer-reviewed (means scientific) article here is https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/13548565251327885
I guess Sony does not, but they allow Amazon and/or Google onto the TV and if you think they are not getting money from you that way I have some nice ocean side property to sell you here in Saskatchewan.
I have an Nvidia Shield stick that’s android based and one day Google started pushing live Taco Bell ads to it on the ambient Home Screen. That was the last day pi-hole ever let it phone home.
Agreed. Watching the queries on the pi-hole dashboard has been eye-opening.
A cheap device like an Onn (~$20) would solve that, probably without requiring the device have Internet access once set up.
Researching now. I figured there were things out there like that but didn’t know they were so inexpensive. Thanks for the suggestion!
couldn’t you also do a little raspberry pi setup? little more work but a lot more control.
I’d love to! Those things are expensive now though. My old Pi is running my Pi-Hole now. If they were affordable, I’d buy a whole ass pallet of them for all the projects I want to do.
Yes the whole poop load of them would be great to get, I have so many projects I would like to do with them.
Are they Samsung TVs?
They are, at least the one that’s given me the most trouble is.
I think Jellyfin already released to Tizen OS, although not all model supports it https://github.com/jellyfin/jellyfin-tizen/issues/222#issuecomment-3831638580
If you want to try, it should be possible to install it yourself instead of waiting it to be available in Tizen app store
Yeah, my TV doesn’t have Tizen as far as I know. I found that jellyfin-tizen app and tried manually installing it but my TV is about 8 years old now.
Not that I want to defend Plex which is definitely enshittifying, but I don’t think most people are buying Plex to stream their own media. They’re doing it so other people can stream their media. Not wanting to buy a domain and set up port forwarding or a reverse proxy or whatever doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. My grandparents are never going to use Tailscale, and even if they did, I don’t think there are any Tailscale smart TV apps.
Disclosure: I run Plex and Jellyfin (and Navidrome) in parallel, and bought a lifetime pass years ago.
Yeah, I have been learning more and just got oauth working last week. I found Plex a little after blockbuster went under and I had over a thousand movies and a few full TV shows. I have tried jellyfin but the lack of apps has been the issue for me. But as Plex does more of this it will get more and more worthless.
They’re doing it so other people can stream their media
and they went to a subscription model, in part, so they could get their ‘cut’ from plex shares.
100% right on for me. It took me years, YEARS, to get my mother to where she would check if USB peripherals were plugged in before asking me to come over and find out why it was broken. Even the occasional slight complications with Plex get her to where she doesn’t use it for months unless I fix it for her. Jellyfin just ain’t happening with her.
Plex is a series C for-profit company and is 100% beholden to its investors who expect a handsome return on investment; the enshittification & price hikes are literally guaranteed to continue. Existing users can, and should expect to be squeezed for profits until they have nothing left to give
Strange, I haven’t paid another cent since I paid like AUD$50 for the lifetime pass well over a decade ago.
There are two ways to increase profits:
- Charge more for the same services
- Remove services or features from paid subscriptions
Plex has done 2 a few times now.
If you like being told you can stream remotely and then later have the feature yanked and slapped behind a paywall, then by all means use Plex.
I bought a lifetime license on day 1 iirc. I wanted to support the software that was so good and better than everything else at the time. I have had zero features yanked.
I want to stream remotely, share my library, and watch on any device I come across, so I’ll use Plex.
That’s all well and good for you, but they pulled many rugs out from under free users. This is arguably bad, depending on who you ask, but they most certainly did flat out lie about, which is the core issue.
There’s no “rug pulling” for free users. Expecting a service run by a for-profit company to keep everything free forever is naive and just plain dumb.
This is arguably bad, depending on who you ask, but they most certainly did flat out lie about, which is the core issue.
What did they lie about exactly?
deleted by creator
You can’t say their service hasn’t gotten worse though :)
I paid $75 USD, but they took my plugins, (pour one out for youtube on plex for my DanTDM obsessed kid back in the day) made my interface hard to navigate, try constantly to shove their own content down my (and my users) throats. Hey, remember when you used to have that sync feature that kept you up to date with a selection of titles, then you could use the client on your phone to serve to other phones even offline, god that was awesome with kids on vacation.
made my interface hard to navigate
How? What is hard to navigate in Plex?
try constantly to shove their own content down my (and my users) throats.
I assume you don’t know you can customize your home screen and menus? You can only have your own content showing if you want.
You can’t say their service hasn’t gotten worse though :)
I absolutely can. It has only improved since I’ve been using it, which is from the very start.
How? What is hard to navigate in Plex?
That last ui update was a open abomination and every plex forum out there was all over it, you can’t hide that by saying nuhhahhhh
Since you’re so enamored with plex and I’m quite versed on it, Let’s talk about the horrors of plex
They are collecting data on your and your friends, what you’re watching and what media you have. If the country or state you live and ever decide to go after pirates, they will absolutely hand that data over to whatever state wants it for a song.
Using plex is selling your self and your family out.
They have consistently removed features that people loved and used to focus on delivering you ad content and enshittifying the average experience until they pay. And how much are you paying to watch your own content? What other services could you be spending that on?
I assume you don’t know you can customize your home screen and menus? You can only have your own content showing if you want.
I assume you’re either shill for the company or an outright PR plant, that last ui change was pushed to put their content first. that’s BS. I had my stuff customized, I disabled their crap, they undid it again. My family had to have me go and dig through those tiny top menus on roku to find my own shares. The average person watching my stuff complained to me that i put ads in my stuff. that’s not by fucking accident, it’s a business decision to give me and mine worse content so they can make an extra buck off me. Every change they make is company first, every requrest we make is forums for user helpful change is years old.
The whole company is absolutely horrible and selfish.
I absolutely can. It has only improved since I’ve been using it, which is from the very start.
How about give me examples instead of just shilling. The people here are owed the truth, not your company first attitude.
